by Melissa Hart

In the 1970s, women who came out and left their husbands routinely lost legal custody of their children in the United States. The Lesbian Mothers’ National Defense Fund (LMNDF) in Seattle offered financial and legal assistance to these women. Shad Reinstein, Jody Laine, and Shan Ottey of Three Big Dykes Productions recently completed a feature-length documentary about LMNDF and its work, titled  Mom’s Apple Pie: The Story of the Lesbian Mother’s National Defense Fund.

Q:  Who are the women behind Three Big Dykes Productions?

A:  Jody has 20 years of technical theater experience.  She came out in the late 1970s.  As she never learned “the peoples’ history” in school, she wants to teach other people about the past that allows us to be who we are today. 

In the mid 1970s, Shad produced a woman’s radio show in Ithaca, NY, including one show on Lesbian moms for Mother’s Day.  Her ex-lover had two kids and never asked for child support from their father out of fear of being taken to court. 

Shan worked as a bartender for many LMNDF benefits.  For years, she was a sound engineer for a women’s radio show in Seattle.  She’s been a foster parent to over 30 kids, many of whom identify as LGBT.

Q:  You initially produced a 12-minute film about LMNDF for an extension course in video documentary at the University of Washington.  What inspired you to extend it to a feature-length documentary?

A:  At UW, we learned how to tell the untold story.  LMNDF remains mostly unknown.  The topic of Lesbian mothers who lost custody of their children grabbed us personally; we wanted to tell a comprehensive story of their plight in the 70’s.  The 12-minute version doesn’t contain the voices of moms and kids because no one would talk to us.  However, after viewing our short documentary, they wanted to tell us their stories.

Q:  Can you describe the political climate of the 1970s and how it affected Lesbian mothers?

A:  Many women came out and left their marriages, then faced losing their children.  During this era, women faced higher levels of oppression.  They had no right to obtain an abortion.  Only in California could they get a “no fault” divorce.  Women had a hard time getting credit in their own name; many of them didn’t have a work history, or even a history of a bank account.

Lesbian mothers had to learn to become self-reliant.  They looked at work in a new way, and entered trades and other non-traditional jobs.  Energy surrounded the Lesbian community.  There were music festivals, radio shows, community living situations.  Women learned to support each other, developing communal and chosen families.  Seattle offered a high level of political development.  The city had over 200 political collectives that worked together to achieve similar goals.

Q:  How did LMNDF help women?

A:  They taught Lesbian mothers to strategize around individual custody battles. Going to court was a last resort; they felt it was better to settle out of court.  LMNDF referred women to knowledgeable lawyers and helped pay for these lawyers.  They helped to find and finance expert witnesses.  The Fund offered literature on basic actions such as setting up Rolodex and bank accounts, and organizing local support groups and fund raisers.  LMNDF sent out a newsletter called “Mom’s Apple Pie” which publicized Lesbian custody cases nationally.

In Seattle, the Fund raised consciousness about Lesbian moms, including their needs and civil rights.  They raised issues surrounding childcare in LGBT activities and pointed out how, when these women no longer had husbands and heterosexual privileges, they became lower class citizens.    Our documentary includes a section on the Lesbian Rights Project in San Francisco, which offered legal support for women going through custody.  It became the National Center for Lesbian Rights.

Q:  Can you describe some of the stories told by Lesbian mothers and their children in your documentary?

A: Initially, people wouldn’t talk to us.  Their memories were too painful and traumatic.  Even women who believed they had settled the issue of child custody through therapy, spirituality, etc. found that our project raised issues after 25-30 years.  Everyone we interviewed cried in interviews.  We often videotaped through tears because the stories were so moving.  Now, we get e-mails from women we don’t know, saying “I went through this in the eighties or nineties.  Thank you for telling my story.”

Not many mothers want to talk about losing their children in these decades.  Business women in non-urban areas are afraid of homophobic reactions if they became known.  Women now caring for adult disabled children fear they might lose custody again.

Q. How would you describe the political climate for Lesbian mothers now?

A:  It depends on where they live and what support systems are available.  It also depends on women’s awareness of these support systems.  Lesbian moms are still taken to court, especially in the southern U.S.  Presently, no states have laws against being a Lesbian mom, but custody decisions are based on the individual judge’s perception of what’s best for the child.  Thus, homophobia still comes into play.  However, now we have case law and psychological studies which are used for defense in court.  There are many advocates, resources and groups for families and kids of LGBT families, and so life is a little easier.

Still, as the right wing wins state battles on Gay marriage, it turns its attention to attacking LGBT families.  In next few years 5 states face initiatives against same sex adoption and foster care.  Some Lesbians have begun to turn against each other, waging custody battles between biological and nonbiological mothers after a relationship ends.

Q:  What are your goals regarding “Mom’s Apple Pie”?

A.  We’ll submit it to film festivals across the country and offer it to educational institutions with oral history, LGBT studies, and women’s studies courses.  We’re developing a formal distribution plan to communities, hoping to spark discussions about history, Lesbian moms, and the right wing.  The documentary tells a universal human story; anyone who has loved a child will feel the emotion of these women.  The issue at stake here is not strictly an LGBT concern—it relates to child welfare in general.

The film raises further discussion on the definition of family, and redefines the LGBT family beyond simply two Queers raising kids.  We hope it will motivate people to work for social change within their own communities.

Q:  What is your next project?

A:  We’ve committed to making a new recruitment video for Camp 10 Trees, a 2 week camp for LGBT teens and kids of LGBT parents.  We’re making a Peace Camp video to document the 25th anniversary of the women’s peace movement. And we’re working on a documentary about Smiley, a Native American Lesbian elder in the community. 

Eugene writer Melissa Hart is the author of a memoir, The Assault of Laughter: A Daughter’s Journey Back to Her Lesbian Mother (Windstorm, 2005).  She can be reached at melissa@melissahart.com  .