Friday October 6, 2006 SGN.org |
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Volume 34 Issue 40 |
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Sunday, Oct 12, 2008
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'I'M A GAY-AMERICAN': PART TWO |
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| 'I'M A GAY-AMERICAN': PART TWO | ||
| Former New Jersey Gov. Jim McGreevey's speaks about his life, new book
"My persona was Irish, Catholic, straight. I would work hard never to let down that mask." by Mark Segal - Special to the SGN If you think Jim McGreevey revealed all during recent interviews with media powerhouses Larry King and Oprah, think again. In an in-depth interview, the former New Jersey governor speaks in greater detail about the upcoming New Jersey senate race; gives advice to American Idol star Clay Aiken; discusses a possible return to politics; and talks about his new work as a foot soldier for the continuing Gay rights struggle. The extensive interview is the result of an hours-long phone conversation held in conjunction with the release of McGreevey's memoir, The Confession. [Editor's Note: The following is the second half of a two-part interview with McGreevey. The first half will appeared in last weeks edition of the Seattle Gay News.] MS: Is anyone close to you, like your family, saying that all the discourse with the book and events are just revealing too much information? I've never seen somebody lay themselves so bare in my life. JM: Shakespeare said "to thine own self be true." When I came out in August 2004, obviously it was painfully public, and now the hope is to make sense of the greater story and how I came to this place. It's interesting, the letters from across the country I received when I came out, from straight and Gay people, from people who were living lies in their work and marriage and relationship, all really spoke to me. The lies didn't start all at once. At 12 years of age I thought I could only reject being Gay, so the process started as denial, then repression and aversion therapy. MS: What form of aversion therapy did you use? JM: Looking at the "girlie" magazines. I went to the local library and poured through books. Being Gay, nobody transmitted the concept or the identity of being Gay. ... MS: One of the most beautiful pieces of all your interviews was on Larry King, and you were talking about your father, and we could visually see your tears. And you talked about the warmth and love you received from your father when you came out to him. If you would have known he was going to react like that, would you have come out to him earlier in life? JM: Without a doubt. I would have rushed out of the closet. I would have embraced being Gay, and just basked in the love of my parents. MS: So one of the messages here is to parents themselves, to make their home a place where your children can be free to express themselves. JM: I had this one young man email me, and it was so moving. He's from New Jersey, and his parents watched my coming out and they had never thought about their son being Gay until my announcement. And then they asked him, and he told them and shared his story, and shared who he ways. And he told me, "ironically, it was your coming out" and his parents must be older than me, but it was my coming out which opened his parents eyes, and changed their perspective. And that's also the beauty of sharing your truth, that no matter how painful or ugly or messy, other people bring to the story what's in their lives and their background. And they reflect off my experience by virtue of their own lives. MS: You are probably the most well known Gay man in America. There isn't a Gay person who has not seen your coming out on TV. One thing that struck me was your eloquence. When you were actually speaking to the press your coming out, did you see any of the reporters in front of you, or was everything simply clicking in your mind. JM: It was the most transformational experience of my life, transformation in the sense that for the entirety of my life, I refused to accept because of shame and fear who I was, and at that moment I accepted one of the central truths of my life. And as I said in the book, all I felt was grace. There were excruciatingly painful times. At first there was a period of elation, but afterwards there were painful times until I went to the Meadows and began the difficult process of grappling with this long history of denial. But at that moment it was transformational, and ironically a blessing, arguably the most painful moment of my life became the greatest grace. MS: From that piece, let me bring you back into the pit fires of politics again. Robert Novak said thanks to your book, and to the lack of scruples of people like you in New Jersey, that the Mendez-Republican senate race is now a toss up. How do you answer things like that? JM: New Jersey citizens are smart, and my experience is typically they vote for the individual. New Jersey has a strong history of a discerning voter. And ultimately New Jersey voters recognize what is at stake for the nation. MS: Getting personal again, do you see yourself as a person who would walk down the street holding [your partner's] hand? JM: Yes, definitely. I needed help with that. On our third date, I went to shake his hand, and Mark was like "what's this?" MS: You said in the book that straight kids really try to make it to third base, and all you wanted was to make it to first base which was the kiss. You made it to the kiss with Mark early on, how many dates did it take to make it to third base? JM: It was a wonderfully slow, relaxed courtship, which is what I needed. And he realized and understood. He was exceptional. ... MS: You talk about how you spent thirty days in Meadows, to get over yourself and to get over the trauma that was done to your family and the trauma that you inflicted on yourself all that time. Being in the public light, you're going to get slings and arrows thrown at you once again, are you prepared and ready for that now? JM: It's okay, and it's also tremendous having such a loving support network, like my partner, family friends. The LGBT community has been loving, forgiving, and embracing. It's like David Mixner said, "coming home to my own tribe," my own family. MS: In your family which is the LGBT community, we've come a long distance in a short period of time, without the help of major political leaders to help us, with the exception of people like Bill Clinton and Ed Rendell. You've said you want to work with children's issues, but you have the opportunity to make a much larger impact. Would you capitalize on that? JM: I want to do my part for my community, definitely, wherever and whenever that is called for. But where my heart takes me is to helping Gay children be treated with respect and dignity. Ultimately for me it was those painful experiences that made me believe the closet was my only choice. MS: So the idea is to get to children while they're realizing their sexuality and saying that you went through that and they shouldn't have to? JM: Exactly. That's why anti-bullying legislation is critical, so that at the most vulnerable time in a child's life, he or she has the capacity to understand who they are, and embrace their central truth. MS: As you try and filter where you're going to help the community, couldn't this be an area where you could be an expert in each state, find the people to get the legislation passed and push it through the system? You know the legislative process. JM: I want to be a soldier. I want to make the legislation a reality. I want to be helpful. There are people who have done and continue to do tremendous work, and I want to be helpful to those leaders, and whatever way I can help privately, and if they deem it appropriately publicly, I want to be in the system. ... MS: When I was a young kid, I had the same issues as you and most young Gay people. I remember as a child, a TV talk show came on at midnight on PBS claiming to have real live homosexuals on the show. I remember taking a 9-inch television to my bedroom, going under the covers, and watching it at 13 years old. Did you ever have a similar experience growing up? JM: I wanted to have a moment like that, but by 13 I had learned so many bad things about being Gay, that I was curious but fearful. The only images of Gays at the time were people like Paul Lynn and Liberachi. They were the only images I remember. I had a friend at college who was Gay, and I was envious of the fact that he was out and open and accepted his sexuality. And I would ask him questions, almost as a sociologist would ask a subject. Because I was just yearning, aching to learn about Gay identity. MS: Did he know you were curious about the issue? JM: Probably not. My persona was Irish, Catholic, straight. I would work hard never to let down that mask. MS: That media perception you had, with Paul Lynn, Liberachi, was something you didn't want to be? JM: Yeah, it was completely alien to my family and my culture growing up. The images on television, the pictures in books of straight couples, straight life, straight existence and straight values, were combined with academic teaching and the damming messages of the church. I was afraid as a teenager to explore the possibility. I didn't want to embrace it, so the only time I would look for knowledge would be in accidental relationships. MS: There's a big difference between Gay activism and the Gay community. Can you remember the first time growing up when you read or saw things about Gay rights demonstrations? What was your reaction to that? JM: I guess it was Harvey Milk's death, his murder. MS: How did you feel about that at the time? JM: It's sad, but it confirmed my decision to stay in the closet at the time. I wasn't teetering, but it gave me another reason why I made the right decision. MS: Because people kill fags? JM: Yeah, they kill fags, they kill Gays. Forget about getting elected, you could be murdered. All those public messages were negative. Even in terms of stonewall, I remember feeling proud for the people who were marching and engaged in activism and fighting for my rights and doing what was right. I shouldn't say [my rights] since I wasn't openly Gay, but I remember feeling proud, but at the same time keeping all that at double arms length. MS: The people who were doing that were fighting for your rights, and you were part of the community whether you were in the closet or not. JM: At some level I knew they were fighting for my rights, but my refusal to accept who I was kept me from realizing. My psychologist said I knew at a core level, those activists were fighting for my rights, but there was still a basic failure to accept being Gay. MS: How much of that was media, or religious pressure which forced you to have this catharsis? JM: Hopefully we will be the last generation who will have to choose between love and acceptance and professional careers. All the images were condemnatory. MS: Now you are helping to change that, becoming the mass media spokesman in a way. JM: You know, I'm the anti-model, because I accepted wrongly the legitimacy and pretext of those images. I accepted the shame, I accepted being less than others and the denigration, and I internalized it. And it became self-loathing and corrosive. MS: Now you have the chance to discuss all this with people. JM: I met a kid who said he came out because of the book. He was almost trembling, and I just sensed what was in my own heart. I asked him how he was doing, and he said it was tough. I've met people who are out to their friends but not at work. I met a woman who is a teacher out to her family but not to the school principal. MS: I noticed that Oprah particularly was driving the point home about your wife, and how you shouldn't have married her and should have known better. In that vein, and with all of the interviews, is there any question that truly angered you? JM: The only question was 'are you HIV-positive?' MS: You said you've always practiced safe sex. JM: Yeah, and that answer was no. But I felt that they wouldn't ask a straight person that. MS: Obviously there is a littler voyeurism with the non-Gay press, they enjoy all the salaciousness rather than concentrate on the road you took. And hopefully your message [of safe sex] will get out. But let's talk to our community for a minute. You were smart enough to practice safe sex during those days, but in our community there are kids who want to bareback, who want to party and take drugs. What do you say to them? JM: It's so frightening. I've spoken to young guys about the temporary elation and excitement of threatening and risking your life. The ability to embrace your sexual identity may be liberating. But I would ask young guys to be responsible for their own sake, for their lives and health and family. For youth, there's a sense of being invincible and invulnerable. I've had the chance to meet with young people at the center in the village and different groups of young people, and I try to share the message that despite whatever pain or suffering that's inflicted upon you by society's images, you have a responsibility to protect yourself and to keep yourself healthy. MS: You might be proud to know that the European Union recently passed strong anti-bullying legislation. JM: Yeah. And Mark and I spent some time at St. Bartholomew's Episcopalian Church where I attend now, and spoke with two young girls and listened to their experiences. And listening to the stories of rejection from friends and family is touching. That's what's great now about embracing my identity, is feeling the warmth and nurture of the community. Hopefully I can pay back to help young people. MS: Are you surprised at anything you find in the community? JM: The depth of the community and diversity of the community. I now know three Gay Republicans. (chuckle) The strength and power of the community. MS: Are we powerful? JM: I think so. I'm not sure if we recognize how powerful we are. I see Steve Goldstein with Jersey Equality brining LGBT issues to the forefront, and elected officials taking note of our issues. The community in Jersey being organized and not allowing itself to be taken for granted is powerful. MS: Has anybody in the Democratic Party reached out to you and asked you to re-invigorate yourself in the party in the future? JM: I've talked to different elected officials on a personal level. But for me now, I'd rather focus on youth. ... MS: The upswing of your life. What's a typical day for you and your partner? JM: Mark works out more than I do, I should. But we have a loving home; I'm blessed to have two daughters. My younger daughter spends a good deal of time with us. We have two German Shepards, Reike and Utah, and two cats, and Miss Kitty and Kaitlin. MS: Many Gay men and women who don't have spouses don't have children, so their pets are like their kids. JM: My daughter Jacquelyn originally wanted a cat or dog. And I told Mark about it. And she came back to me and she said "daddy, I like mark more than I like you." I said that's all right, but why? She said "because Mark said I could have both cats and dogs." And I said oh, this is going to be fun. MS: It's like having Republicans and Democrats in the same house. JM: Exactly. And we're in a wonderful diversified community. In terms of the Gay straight community, racial diversity religious diversity, we're in an especially diverse community. MS: Do you think the media understands the Gay community and is covering us properly, with the different books and TV shows and movies? JM: It's interesting because I went to the GLADD dinner, I listened to Giuliano, and the irony is, much of the media gets it. But certain aspects of the political class, are now preaching the hateful messages that are rejected by the media. While the media have come light years, certain politicians are embracing the mainstream messages of hate which the mainstream media rejects. And the messages of ugliness are broadcast by elected officials. So it's almost as if we've made such great strides in terms of Hollywood, but the political class, particularly Republicans in elections, have used Gays as whipping posts, to not necessarily win independent voters, who are largely repulsed by the message, but to energize their base to vote, which is disgusting. Any party that denigrates, that does that to the identity and dignity of a group for political convenience, tears at the fabric of American civil society. And plus these ballot initiatives. MS: Do they go out of their way to use the Gay issue to their advantage? JM: Ugh. It's like Gays, guns, and unfortunately their view of God. ... MS: If by any chance the democrats capture the white house in 2 years, do you see yourself playing a role in that administration? If asked? Would you like to? JM: Not now. MS: You are good. You stay on message better than Ed [Rendell]. JM: Haha. That's 20 years. It's good for my soul. I believe, selfishly it will be good for me to work with children. It will bring me a greater sense of peace and purpose, than any good I'd do otherwise. It's also part of healing to be in grassroots and trenches. It wills me, and I think I need the time. This will run its course. MS: Thank you, you've been absolutely generous. |
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International Readers |
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